Talk:John Hunyadi

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Add Iancu as a Romanian name?

John Hunyadi is commonly called Iancu by Romanians, and I think the Romanian version of his name should be written as Ioan/Iancu de Hunedoara. LaszloKov (talk) 17:50, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I just wanna confirm and say that you guys should change his romanian version of the name, nobody calls him "Ioan de Hunedoara" in Romania, he is known as "Iancu de Hunedoara", he even apears as such on the romanian Wikipedia Volfus Dăcescu (talk) 21:06, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

my bad, he apears as "Ioan de Hunedoara" on the romanian version, I just assumed he would be called "Iancu" there, cause no one in real life calls him "Ioan" Volfus Dăcescu (talk) 21:08, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 10 November 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Change the Romanian name from "Ioan de Hunedoara" to "Iancu de Hunedoara" DBogdan01 (talk) 16:23, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why? Even Romanian Wiki uses the latter form. --Norden1990 (talk) 21:34, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: no reason given for the proposed change. M.Bitton (talk) 15:19, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Olah János

His contemporaries called him Olah János. This is beyond any doubt. This information must be included in the article. How should we procede? Caliniuc (talk) 22:49, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:CITE mainstream academic WP:SOURCES to that extent. tgeorgescu (talk) 23:06, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Caliniuc, do you want to know better his Hungarian name than native Hungarians? Hungarian wiki: “Hunyadi Janos” https://hu.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunyadi_J%C3%A1nos

His statue, Heroes Square’ Budapest, please consult with Hungarians that you know better that his name is not his name in Hungarian

OrionNimrod (talk) 04:30, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The name used by his contemporaries was John the Romanian (Olah Janos in Hungarian, Johannes Olah de Hunyad, etc.) as per numerous primary and secondary sources:

...Hunyadinak családi neve Oláh volt , s az erdélyi Hunyad várról , melyet már 1409 - ben uj adományban nyert , vette Hunyadi nevét...

If for some reason one finds this information troublesome, they should articulate in an scholary-ecnyclopedical manner the reservations with it. Otherwise, it is mandatory for this relevant information to be included in the article. Caliniuc (talk) 10:15, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I looked at the 21st century WP:RS from your search: there are not many, and most of them have a nationalist POV.

I'm not saying that Pop is wrong, but everybody knows he is a nationalist and that he is doing propaganda for the nation state. tgeorgescu (talk) 01:30, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That he was sometimes called John the Vlach is mentioned in the article. Borsoka (talk) 02:09, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alternative names

@Caliniuc: could you refer to reliable sources stating that John the Romanian is a significant alternative name in English language literature? Please also take into account that the lead is to be a summary of the main text. Borsoka (talk) 15:23, 5 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly. Following is an extract (p.153, n.104) from peer-reviewd academic article, concerning the John Hunyadi's ethnic (and associated political) ancestry with respect to the power plays of 15th century SE Europe: "After that moment, John ceased to be called John the Wallachian in official Hungarian records (seealso Lupescu, “Matthias Hunyadi”, p. 42). Given his time in royal service, John’s earlier designationas the Wallachian cannot be explained only by ethnic criteria in the context of his elevation to the rankof ban of Severin. He had spent too much time in Hungarian administration (fifteen years) in order forthe Wallachian designation to become obsolete prior to 1439 (still, as a court knight, from 1434onwards, he had been named Johannes Olah de Hunyad; Drăgan, Nobilimea românească, p. 424; theemphasis placed on the Wallachian was futile, as long as he was further named of Hunedoara). Themost plausible explanation seems of political nature. Once John became a high official (and real baron)of the realm (Kubinyi, Matthias Rex, p. 13), Wallachia as a “career option” was out of the question,irrespective of how meagre or strong John's ties to the Basarabs were). Still, as regent of Hungary(1447), John personally pushed for more: the throne of Wallachia (Pall, “Intervenţia lui Iancu deHunedoara”, passim). But John had to pull back and enthrone his relative, Wladislaw II."

That John Hunyadi was called "Olah Janos" in Hungarian was standard up until the 20th century, when nationalistic discourse subverted Hungarian historiography. This can easily be see in Google Books searches eg1, eg2.

This is because all contemporary sources use this formula: "John the Romanian". This evidence prompted much "analysis" by modern Hungarian historiography eg3, but this travail (stages of acceptance) is a burden only of those who choose. Best regards! Caliniuc (talk) 19:35, 5 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Caliniuc (talk) 19:35, 5 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I think you do not know exactly what are those linked Hungarian texts, just you used random google search. OrionNimrod (talk) 20:19, 5 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Caliniuc: books published in Hungarian and Romanian cannot verify an English alternative name. So, I must repeat my question: could you refer to reliable sources stating/verifying that John the Romanian is a significant alternative name in English language literature? Please also take into account that the lead is to be a summary of the main text. Please also read WP:3RR very carefully, because edit warring may have had very serious consequences, including the loss of your editing privileges. Borsoka (talk) 13:09, 6 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

John vs. Janos

I'm not well versed in Hungarian, but at birth he wasn't called by an English name. I think it quite insulting that an important hungarian be called a name that he wouldn't have gone by in life. 140.228.255.139 (talk) 21:04, 30 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 3 May 2025

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Lötyögi Pityu (talk) 14:36, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hunyadi János születési helye Kolozsvár (ma Cluj-Napoca, Románia), amely akkoriban a Magyar Királyság része volt, Erdély területén. A pontos születési dátum nem ismert, de a történészek többsége 1407 körülre helyezi. A források szerint Hunyadi családja román eredetű volt, de magyarrá nemesedett, és Kolozsvár fontos szerepet játszott életükben, mivel itt kaptak birtokokat és kiváltságokat.

Azonban egyes történelmi viták szerint Hunyadi születési helye nem teljesen biztos, mivel a korabeli dokumentumok nem mindig egyértelműek, és más erdélyi helyszínek (például Vajdahunyad) is felmerültek. A legelfogadottabb nézet mégis Kolozsvár mellett szól, amit a legtöbb történelmi forrás, például a Magyar Nemzeti Múzeum és a történész Bánfi Szilvia tanulmányai is megerősítenek.

Ha további részleteket szeretnél Hunyadi életéről vagy a történelmi kontextusról, jelezd!